Curse

Trub · May 22, 2008, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Though many more aged people may play this game it's first and foremost built around KIDS and how KIDS think and want to play. KIDS like godmode, KIDS like cheats, KIDS like things easy and fast and don't want to work for anything. So, grow"down" peoples.

QFT....2...3...4

ZOMG EDIT:
While many of us GW players over 20 enjoy the challenge of skill bar building, and the thrill of knowing our teams beat the snot out of X )Y and Z in HM, we have to remember....GW is a game developed primarily for children...(12-17)
To be truly entertained, and challenged in GW...alot of us 'old timers' joined guilds with the same mind-set as ourselves....explore all possibilities in the thousands of skills provided.
Though I myself do not understand the need for UB, or any of the other 'blessings'...does not mean the younger inexperienced players should be brow beat for wanting, and yes...needing it to even, to complete certain NM parts in GW.
Have fun..and gg.

Frank Dudenstein · May 22, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

If this update makes it easier for new players (or casual player) to farm then all the better. If the average player has 20k (read somewhere) then I consider them broke. If the average / casual player wants to grind for title (something I consider a waste of time) so the much the better. If the average / casual player wants to use Ursan Blessing to do UW / FoW / DoA / Slaver's so much the better (I don’t have to use the skill). If your e-pen shrinks because others have FoW armor or have done elite areas then I feel sorry for you. My enjoyment of the game doesn't depend on what others have or have not done, it depends on what I consider fun and for me gold drops are fun (treasure hunt).

This attitude may work great for you but its not good for the game as a whole.

Many gamers, particularly the hardcore gamers, get enjoyment from 'accomplishing' something difficult or time-consuming.

If everything in the game is easy and accessible to casual gamers, then you have no hardcore players. An MMO with no hardcore players is a dead MMO.

Mewcatus · May 22, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Dudenstein

This attitude may work great for you but its not good for the game as a whole.

Many gamers, particularly the hardcore gamers, get enjoyment from 'accomplishing' something difficult or time-consuming.

If everything in the game is easy and accessible to casual gamers, then you have no hardcore players. An MMO with no hardcore players is a dead MMO.

A very bad connotation. A MMO is only dead, if there is no one playing it. There are actually MMOs out there which are casual in nature, with casual players. And to prove how backward dated you are with the times, refer to the article below.

http://www.worldsinmotion.biz/2008/0...on_the_ris.php

Here are some mmos which blow your credibility up in smoke: Habbo, Webkinz, Puzzle Pirates, Parking Wars, Kart Rider and Audition

Next time you want to overgeneralise, do it with proof, not with your biased opinion.

Red Sonya · May 22, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

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If everything in the game is easy and accessible to casual gamers, then you have no hardcore players. An MMO with no hardcore players is a dead MMO.

Once again opinionated and dead wrong because hardcore players do not make up any kind of huge population of any of these types of games. Never have never will and I got that straight from a developer/publishers (Matrixgames) mouth that if they had to rely on hardcore players for their living they would end up having to work at Burger King.

GW can and really is successful because of it's focus on casual and easy friendly gameplay. It is not designed around hardcore play as there's already a slew of those out in the market now (WOW, EQ, DAOC etc. etc.) It will and would easily survive if every hardcore player in the game quit. The casual player will ALWAYS outnumber the hardcore player in every type of game out there like this unless the game is strickly MADE for hardcore players like "Shadowbane" which failed miserably trying to cater to hardcore pvp only hahah it only has less than 15,000 players left now. So, if you really want a purely hardcore game I suggest you go play Shadowbane.

Asplode · May 22, 2008, 05:20 PM // 17:20

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Originally Posted by snaek

do the skill balancers even play teh dam game?

Nope.

123456789

Esan · May 22, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

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Originally Posted by Red Sonya

[Guild Wars] would easily survive if every hardcore player in the game quit.

It would do better than that. It would thrive. Hardcore players have soaked the fun out of nearly every aspect of the game, in both PvE and PvP.

Longasc · May 22, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

There are actually MMOs out there which are casual in nature, with casual players. And to prove how backward dated you are with the times, refer to the article below.

http://www.worldsinmotion.biz/2008/0...on_the_ris.php

Here are some mmos which blow your credibility up in smoke: Habbo, Webkinz, Puzzle Pirates, Parking Wars, Kart Rider and Audition

Before you try to prove the smallest part of what Frank Dudenstein said dead wrong, think about what you are doing and saying.

You just want to prove that MMOs can thrive if they have no veteran players. OK, if you really want GW to be like the games you mentioned...

I for sure hope that Guild Wars 2 is not made for the sophisticated audience of Habbo, Webkinz, Puzzle Pirates, Parking Wars, Kart Rider and Audition!

But who knows, ANet is always in for a disappointment.

Mewcatus · May 22, 2008, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

It would do better than that. It would thrive. Hardcore players have soaked the fun out of nearly every aspect of the game, in both PvE and PvP.

Actually, people should be happy for the existense of some types of hardcore players. Principally, those who take the effort to document all the types of skills, missions and quests and those who are willing to share tips and help out new players are great for fostering community spirit.

Of course, there are some types of hardcore players, like you mentioned which may create a counter-wise effect. Case in point includes, the excessive farmers ( What do you need so much money for in this game, seriously ? ) and the RMT traders.

Akaraxle · May 22, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Wow. SF sins were griefing in HA even before Factions was released and before perma-SF with one sin (not counting QZ + SF, because it wasn't solo)?! Good gracious, someone should bust a cap in A.Net's ass ;o

Btw, the more I read how they dumb down PvE, the more I want to play more challenging games that are harder ;d

Isn't Dungeon Runners really bad?

Frank Dudenstein · May 22, 2008, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

A very bad connotation. A MMO is only dead, if there is no one playing it. There are actually MMOs out there which are casual in nature, with casual players. And to prove how backward dated you are with the times, refer to the article below.

http://www.worldsinmotion.biz/2008/0...on_the_ris.php

Here are some mmos which blow your credibility up in smoke: Habbo, Webkinz, Puzzle Pirates, Parking Wars, Kart Rider and Audition

Next time you want to overgeneralise, do it with proof, not with your biased opinion.

Lol@ the comparison between GW and 'Habbo, Webkinz, Puzzle Pirates, Parking Wars, Kart Rider and Audition" or anything else mentioned in that article.

Is that what you want GW to be? Because I have a garage and a server too ... I'll brew up an MMO for ya just gimme a coupla hours.

***

Once again you guys are missing the point. Sure hardcore players are in the minorty and GW could survive without them. But you must have a game engine/sytem that is attractive enough to engender hardcore players. Otherwise you end up with a game that people play for 2 weeks and put aside ... might as well make it a single player game.

Mewcatus · May 22, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Before you try to prove the smallest part of what Frank Dudenstein said dead wrong, think about what you are doing and saying.

You just want to prove that MMOs can thrive if they have no veteran players. OK, if you really want GW to be like the games you mentioned...

I for sure hope that Guild Wars 2 is not made for the sophisticated audience of Habbo, Webkinz, Puzzle Pirates, Parking Wars, Kart Rider and Audition!

But who knows, ANet is always in for a disappointment.

There's a difference between a veteran and a hardcore player. Veterans are those who are experienced with the game, yet do not clock humongous hours playing, while hardcore players are both experienced with the game, and often do so excessively.

You did be surprised. Actually, for any mmo to survive, you dont actually need Hardcore players, just casual paying players actually help. In any case, I am actually in line with the article, that "casual" style type of mmo, could be the next evolution in the steps of gaming.

As long as Anet manages to target the segment they have aimed for so far, it shouldn't be a real problem.

AOD_EaSyKiLL · May 22, 2008, 05:41 PM // 17:41

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Originally Posted by Akaraxle

Isn't Dungeon Runners really bad?

Its pretty much 100% free, so when you look at it that way, it isnt too bad. You only pay if you want some perks.

Mewcatus · May 22, 2008, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Dudenstein

Lol@ the comparison between GW and 'Habbo, Webkinz, Puzzle Pirates, Parking Wars, Kart Rider and Audition" or anything else mentioned in that article.

Is that what you want GW to be? Because I have a garage and a server too ... I'll brew up an MMO for ya just gimme a coupla hours.

***

Once again you guys are missing the point. Sure hardcore players are in the minorty and GW could survive without them. But you must have a game engine/sytem that is attractive enough to engender hardcore players. Otherwise you end up with a game that people play for 2 weeks and put aside ... might as well make it a single player game.

Actually, I kind of disagree with you on your final points. A game engine and system is important. But to the casual player, the number of quests and the size of the maps within GW is actually satisfactory if you were not just wanting to rush through every mission like a bear on steriods.

Getting titles or great items, are often just a nice bonus for most casual players, as they chug along.

Hardcore players on the other hand, are often those who tend to be looking for the sweet spots for farming or otherwise. Thus, it is essentially different.

An easy analogy: Say that Guild Wars is like a 42 km marathon. The Casual Players are like the amateurs, who will take probably twice to thrice as long as the hardcore players, who are like more competitive.

The selling point, in which Anet has mentioned is that majority are casual gamers. In this case, there is actually enough content for casual players to last their fill of the game for quite a substantial amount of time.

agamemnon II · May 22, 2008, 06:15 PM // 18:15

it's nice to see that WY and "incoming" are getting better. but i dont see why mystic regen can't be un-nerfed for pve, so many farming builds have been ruined since it got nerfed, and 130 derv can't farm anywhere near as much, or as effective.

Snow Bunny · May 22, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Slight question -

I understand that this was put out as a preview.

Do we know if the final update will include more than shown in the notes?
I know it's a bit of a moot point but I'm curious if we know anything in that regard.

Abedeus · May 22, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

Isn't Dungeon Runners really bad?

It's like a funny version of Diablo 2 in 3D and better graphics. Plus you are not limited to your primary class. Oh, and even the commercials in free version are great.

And for $5 you get a lot. You can use better armor/weapon, dont have commercials and you can use better potions.. But it's not like ,,free account is kicked in face by paid account'' - in pve, you still need to be a bit skilled to win, it's not like you have super good stuff that gives you 100% damage reduction.

Oh, and if you can't use items on a free account, you can sell those items for a lot of cash (even at merchant) and buy almost equal items that you can use.

If you don't believe me, compare DR to any other free mmorpg. Runescape, Tibia, Flyff. They fail. Of course, you have to like hack and slashes ;d

HawkofStorms · May 22, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Terrible. Just what I thought would happen when they announced seperate skill balancing. Only buffs to PvE.

Bye bye balance. Bye bye challenging PvE experience. Bye bye fun.

eximiis · May 22, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Are they really put Ether Renewal at 20 sec. and 4 energy and (the 20 hp) that's already on the skill description ?? if so, no more need for monk in pve

protective spirit
spirit bond
shield guardian
reversal of fortune
zealot's fire (even some damage)
aura of restoration
ether renewal
glyph of swiftness (for perma E-renewal)

or the healing version

Infuse health (huge amount of healing that can be spam for energy gain) lol
vigorous health (spam on the team without even worrying for energy)
patient spirit (quick recharge, quick casting) spam spam
zealot's fire (even the healing version is dealing damage)
holy veil (for the fun of having foes cast slower)
aura of restoration
ether renewal
glyph of swiftness

Honestly can a monk be more effective than that ???

R.Shayne · May 22, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

Case in point includes, the excessive farmers ( What do you need so much money for in this game, seriously ? ).

I have needs! I can not help myself, I see it and I just got to have it. I have tried to stop but I can't do it.

Seriously, 10 toons, 4 sets of armor each (mostly prestigious armor depending on what I like) and the total gold needed is over 3,000,000 and that does not include materials. The really sad part is I am over half way done.

Lately I have been working on having every character learn ever skill in their primary. That gets expensive too and about a quarter way done (learning useless skills is questionable but something I want to do).

Chest freak to, if it has a chance of dropping gold I am opening it. I carry lock picks and I buy lock picks 80 at a time (100k) so anothe expensive habit.

I do believe that Guild Wars is a success and it has nothing to do with us hard-core players (if you are posting on these forums you are either lost or a hard-core player) but at the same time some hardcore players actually add to the game. Who do you think puts the information in on the wiki? Look at some of the suggestions that have been implemented in the game, some have came from these suggestion forums. There is a thread about splitting PvE and PvP skills.

Think about the gold it takes to complete one HoM, if the casual players wants to fill out a HoM for one character they might not need to farm, if they want to fill out a HoM for more than one character then they will need to farm (or power trade – wife does that), otherwise they are going to be forever trying to get enough gold to do it. This update helps those players (Casual grinder or casual farmers).

No skill was buffed even near to [ursan Blessing] Ursan Blessing power. [Shadow Form] Shadow Form may be over powered but lets see how the casual player reacts. The hardcore UW farmers are going to abuse it, that is a given but here is a hint about farming – if you need ecto it is quicker to farm elsewhere and then go to the temple of ages and buy it. Once ecto dropped below 6 - 7k it was no longer feasible to farm it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

Honestly can a monk be more effective than that ???

Page 5 of this thread I think they are some other build of spam healing using Ether Renewal, looks close to yours in some way. I like your second one. No Heal Party?

DutchSmurf · May 22, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewcatus

An easy analogy: Say that Guild Wars is like a 42 km marathon. The Casual Players are like the amateurs, who will take probably twice to thrice as long as the hardcore players, who are like more competitive.

The selling point, in which Anet has mentioned is that majority are casual gamers. In this case, there is actually enough content for casual players to last their fill of the game for quite a substantial amount of time.

To show how bad analogies usually are, let me add the following. If a marathon wants to be successful and drawing a large audience, it needs professional runners. That way you get the tv time, the sponsors and everything else needed to make it big. A marathon with only amateurs is fine on a local level with low costs, not for a high end one.

A game with only casual players won't generate enough buzz to sell really well. How successful do you think games like Habbo would be if you had to pay $50 for them? And then, even Habbo has hardcore players.